Thursday, August 8, 2013

What Happens to the Copies?

First of all let me say, I love Mexico. I love living here but the thing that drives me crazy is how you have to provide copies of documents over and over to prove who you are. Although the question of this rant is more about what happens to the copies, let me give you an example of how these copies accumulate.And if your experience in getting something similar done is different you know that your experience may vary depending on the weather or whatever.

Ned opened a bank account years ago so that we could cash or deposit US checks for our living expenses. I could sign on the account but after he died I could not change the account so that I was the primary rather than the secondary on the account until the house was in my name.  I continued to use the account but it was a little aggravating every time I went into the bank to deal with the issue of identifying the account in Ned's name. I know that seems strange but that is the way this bank works. I recently completed getting the house in my name.

The employee at the bank told me that they will close the old account and open a new account in my name but first they need a copy of the death certificate, a copy of the new deed, a copy of a utility bill in my name, a copy of my passport and a copy of my Permanent Resident card....front and back.

A copy of the death certificate....that is reasonable.  A copy of the new deed......I've never had to give out a copy of a deed to a bank before unless there is some transaction involving the deed. A copy of a utility bill in my name.....why? If I own the house, I own the house. What difference does the utility bill make? A copy of my passport and a copy of my Permanent Resident card.....why both? If the Mexican government has granted me permission to live in Mexico and the Permanent Resident card has my photo on it why do they need copies of both?

I don't understand the reasoning behind all of this but it is the way it is done in Mexico. Then I find out that in order to change any of the utilities to my name, I have to furnish each company a copy of my deed, a copy of my passport and a copy of my permanent resident card. Why do they have to have a copy of my deed?

Okay, I tell myself, stay calm. This is the way it is done in Mexico.

The deed along with other papers that are stamped and stapled to it is about 20 pages but I comply. All of these copies get made and distributed to all interested parties. Now I can add a copy of a utility bill in my name to the stack that goes to the bank.

Finally! A checking account in my name in Mexico.

At the bank maybe they do keep a copy of the deed but at the utility companies what do they do with all of the copies? Next year if I went to one of the utility companies, could they locate the copy of my deed? Don't think so. Are the copies stored in a secure place? Don't think so.

So here is my question. What happens to all the copies that we ex-pats as well as the Mexicans are required to furnish for government agencies, banks and utilities? Those of you who live here in Mexico, what do you think?

19 comments:

  1. Good question. I convinced myself that Immigration asks for a copy of all of my investments to make it easier for kidnappers. That way they just need to fill in the blank for the amount in the ransom note.

    I know the answer concerning bank accounts. I recently saw my paper file at my Banamex branch. It is huge. Filled with every copy I have ever given them. I just wonder where all those fat files are kept.

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    1. That is my question....where are the files kept. Especially at Immigration. Well at the utility companies too. Maybe they are dumping them in Popo to burn.

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  2. Well, since I don't own a house, I don't have to provide a deed. All I took was my passport and visa along with a copy of the telephone bill which is in my name. Bada bing bada boom. Done same day..........

    I don't care what they do with all that paper and I LOVE the rubber stamps they use everywhere. At the banks, at immigration, and any other governmental office. They seem so proud and official when they stamp something. It makes me grin inside.

    You're lucky they didn't ask you to have your birth certificate apostilled. John had to go through that several times.........for various governmental agencies.

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    1. Barbara, it seems like I've had to have more documents copied just because I'm doing some of these transactions as a widow. Even though I was the beneficiary of Ned's Mexican will. I can't imagine how many copies John has had to furnish. Did a lot of them have to be translated too?

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  3. At the end of the year (or week or month or day) those paper copies are either 1. Trashed or 2. Filed away.

    By the way, did they ask for a utility bill specifically with your name on it, or simply a utility bill with the address? Likely the latter. They usually don't care whose name is on the utility bill, just the address.

    As for all the moronic paperwork, it is because the mindset of the Spanish viceregal system still is firmly planted in the Mexican bureaucratic psyche. We live in the past. Government work was a good gig in Spanish days (still is) and the more paperwork you could generate the greater your job security.

    The system is not intended so much to be rational. It's busywork that insures jobs.

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    1. Felipe, I was specifically told to bring in the utility bill in my name. However, I have some lesbian friends who live in DF and got married there. You have to prove that you live there and they were asked to bring in a utility bill. The bill they were paying had their address on it but it was in the name of the dead husband of their landlord. They didn't have a problem and they had a lovely wedding.

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    2. I wonder if you quietly as a married woman melted into the sunset (other than the bank with it's balance) and simply began again as if you had just arrived? I just have to reply to Felipe - government and their workers are the same everywhere. My family has been employed in the public sector for years and we are amazed at the lazy, useless people employed in local government who got their jobs courtesy of political affiliations. When they lose one job they invariable turn up in another government job.

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    3. I thought about doing just starting over anew. It might have worked.

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  4. wow....that IS so MEXICO!! I'm sure that you have many, many more frustrations of that type living full time in Mexico...but, yes, the documentation thing is really goofy! Also, re: mexican banks...they are so much more security crazed with internet usage...including having to use a little devise that generates 'secret code numbers' needed for every transaction...sheez!

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    1. Yes the security at the banks is "secure." It is one of the reasons that I didn't want to change banks. I have a personal relationship with a couple of the people in the bank who know my name and we speak on the street if we run into one another. A lot of things get done because of relationships in Mexico. But the crazy thing is that every time I withdraw money....from the same teller....she has to see my driver's license.

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  5. In Mexico, the process is way more important than the outcome. The worst was when I had to change my Michoacán license plates to the DF. OMG. The room was filled wall-to-wall with cardboard boxes with our copies of comprobantes de domicilio.

    Oh, the famous "comprobante de Domicilio" in the name of our landlords dead father (QEPD) lives in offices all over this huge city. That's what we needed to get married (we're the lesbians of which Billie speaks) and it was the most important document in securing a DF drivers license. No matter whether I knew how to drive or had insurance or had had speeding tickets or accidents. All I needed was that poor dead guy's phone bill.

    Here is a video that's been around for a while, but it still makes me laugh--- black humor, I guess, because it is so true. It's Spanish, but applies here in Mexico. That girl could have been me applying for my Residente Permanente. Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wtbQUaC9mE&list=FLM5pzcAGTPgvpvJWz1kJ-yQ

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    1. Judith, that video is pretty funny. I had seen it before but I was laughing again.

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  6. Don't worry about security. Heck, don't even worry about backing up stuff on your computer. The NSA has already done that for you. The NSA, IRS, DEA, and MOM already know more about you than you do.

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  7. I think that they shred the copies. The files go directly into the shredder,and then into the landfill that is holdig up Mexico City.

    That is why every single stinking time you need to produce more copies of the same stuff.

    When we wanted to change the address on our bank account, we waited two hours to talk to an executive (ok, this was our fault, we were new to Mexico and came on quincena).

    In addition to the utility bill, copies of our visa and passport,they wanted to see the original contract!

    Husband, got irritated, and asked "what do we need to close the account?". Once again the answer was original contract.

    So he asked,"What is the maximum we can withdraw from this account without closing it?" Amazingly, they discovered a way to do the address change without the original contract, by making a copy from their files

    We eventually decide that a Mexican bank account was not for us.

    regards,
    Theresa



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    1. One other comment, we spend lots of time in the US and occasionally hubby uses his Mexican bank account's ATM card in the US. As you know these cards are flimsy and it's amazing the machine can ever read them. Hubby's stopped working as noted by the remark unable to read. He went into his Mexican bank to get it replaced - are you ready for this?? They had to close that account and open a new account in order to issue him a new ATM card.

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    2. Gin and Theresa, both of these stories are funny and unfortunately not unusual.

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    3. Gin, we have also been through that a couple of times. Once, they gave us a new ATM card but discovered that the comprobante wasn't in our name or, maybe it was that the house has no number. So, they tore up that cuenta and gave us yet another.

      Saludos,
      Don Cuevas

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  8. This is one of the many reasons Mexico doesn't enjoy a higher standard of living. If everyone is working inefficiently, less gets done, and thus there are fewer goods and services to go around.

    What I find rather amazing is this. In the USA, dealing with banks, insurance companies, etc used to be MUCH harder than it is today, though not as difficult as in Mexico. But in the 1980's all these organizations went through "business process re-engineering," and basically figured out that being bureaucratic and inefficient was costing them profits.

    So I'm waiting for the Mexican banks to figure this out too. Some day, they'll hopefully scan all your documents into a computerized document management system that will then allow them to call up the document electronically whenever they want.

    Meanwhile, I guess everyone gets to "enjoy" a taste of nineteenth century banking.

    Saludos,

    Kim G
    Boston, MA
    Where we literally haven't set foot in our own bank EVER.

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